A Vent, and Apology

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strych9
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A Vent, and Apology

Postby strych9 » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:11 pm

Very recently (last weekend I believe), I was playing the good ol' "No Rulez" Face server with some moderate success at holding my own with the locals. After a few intense and close matches, I was feeling pretty good about the server environment and my performance in general.

Then the dickhead showed up. You know him. The guy that piston camps all of the portals on Face. Yeah, THAT guy.

Admittedly, I'm a pussy. I came from the sterile and arguably-too-many-rules environment of FOCR. Myself, 35 other members, and a host of regulars kinda liked it that way. Somehow, being in that environment for so long made me come to expect fair play and sportsmanship as a given.

Anyway, "THAT guy" showed up and ruined my day. Prolly got around 8 or so flag kills and returns on me by camping the upper portal. Sorry, I'm a damn slow learner...shame on me. Then, fury set in. I asked an admin (who shall remain nameless, I'm not here to out anyone) if portal camping is legal. He said, "...it is, but super lame." Great! We were in perfect agreement!

I then set out to make "THAT guy's" life a living hell. I scaled the wall and tele'd his dumb ass on several occasions. Then, blinded by rage, I decided to childishly beat him at his own game. So, I piston camped that portal like nobody's bitch. Nobody was coming through there. I even foiled some attempts to counter my lameness. I was drunk with power!

At this point I should add that I was aliasing and I really don't think the admin knew who I was, but after killing him 3 or 4 times with the portal camp, he says to me, "Do it one more time, I DARE you!"

Now I'm confused. The nice admin who just told me that the very thing I was doing was legal on the server (even though we both agreed it was LAME) was NOW telling me KNOCK IT OFF OR ELSE. What the...? So, me being me, I asked, "Biased admin??" No reply. I then identified myself as StRYCH9 and told him I was only trying to make a point. Yeah, it's lame, but evidently I kind of succeeded in making that point. He then said, "Yeah, I know, I was just kidding...lol."

I have to call "bullshit" on that one, it sure looked like backpedaling to me. Whatever the case may be, I apologize to you, Mr. Admin, for my ultra-lame tactic to prove a point. It was a shitty way for me to go about it, won't do it again. HOWEVER...you either have rules, or you don't. I assume that by advertising "No Rulez" it implies just that: NO RULES. I have a choice to either play there or not, and take the good with the bad (which I will do from now on).

Meantime, let's keep the policies (or lack thereof) consistent for everyone. If nothing else, you all knew exactly what you could and couldn't do on the FOCR servers. Haley's can only improve by making that same point. Definitely a great place to play, but I would be remiss of my duty as a member of the community if I didn't make my opinion known. Thanks for reading my windy rant.
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Postby j@Y666**Qc.ca** » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:39 pm

sad. all i can say is, %$#*ing around in face required much patience. and, some people are weird. :?
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Postby {WINGS}Broken_Clock » Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:50 pm

It doesn't seem like a no rules server anymore. So I would just stay away from doing things like that and admins will never have to warn or kick you for it.
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Postby Renegadex » Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:41 am

Long story.

Short answer: obey the admins, or go somewhere else.

We'd rather you stuck around and played, but portal camping is just poor sportsmanship. Try other tricks. :roll:
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Postby MADMAX » Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:10 am

strych9 thanx for your post. 8)
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Postby strych9 » Sat Sep 06, 2008 7:13 am

Renegadex wrote:Short answer: obey the admins, or go somewhere else.

Understood, but technically I wasn't doing anything wrong. Therefore, what I drew from the experience was that your admins have the unlimited power to create their own rules. Sorry, I ran servers for eight years and none of my admins ever had that power, thus I think that it isn't a good policy.

We'd rather you stuck around and played, but portal camping is just poor sportsmanship.

Agreed, but poor sportsmanship is evidently encouraged by your "NO RULES" format. So why was I chastised for it?

Don't misunderstand. I'm not here to trash your server. Obviously you have done something right here to have a CTF server as popular as it is. All I'm challenging here (or moreso questioning) is the ideology that your administration uses to regulate what goes on there. 90% of my personal experience there has been positive, and this is my first run-in with an admin on ANY server. Why? Because I play with sportsmanship and teamplay in mind. Unfortunately, I had a weak moment, which I apologized for.

Ren, I would have expected a more positive comment from you than "obey the admins, or go somewhere else." Rather disappointing. :cry:
Last edited by strych9 on Sat Sep 06, 2008 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby BAR|BeerThePenguin » Sat Sep 06, 2008 9:04 am

Was this even a Haleys server?
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Postby strych9 » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:26 am

BAR|BeerThePenguin wrote:Was this even a Haleys server?

Peng, are you kidding? I believe it was #1, Face only, no rules. As if. :lol:
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Postby He||raZ'r » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:30 am

Welcome to the conundrum called Haley's "No Rules" which has been argued, disputed & debated to death, read thru the Banned forums and y'ull see the "Long Story" that RenX mentioned in his post, but to make a "Long Story" very short- "No Rules" means just that "No Rules" for anybody and anybody includes Admins. Of course, just to make it interesting, there are actually rules which are stated on the Haleys homepage-

Thou Shalt Not...
(1) Piston Camp
(2) Spawn Kill
(3) Team Kill
(4) Flag Launch
(5) Dis Admins

To make it even more interesting the rules can be bent, ie. PCing the portal at the top of the tower as u go thru carrying the flag, spawning killing the opponent to cover ur FC, as long as bending the rules doesn't stray too far, u should be ok.

Whew! thats a lot to be thinking of while ur just trying to have a good game of UT, and coincidently there is a server that was created (in part) because "No Rules" can be such a stretch to get ur brain around- Haleys 3, we have rules, that are clearly stated, so ull know right where u stand.

unreal://8.9.6.66:7777/ <---click Strych9, I'd luv to see u there

Dont get me wrong though, the "No Rules" concept made H1 what it is today (and 125 speed :wink: ) it does work (look at all the copy cat servers out there)
..Its merely a couple of clicks and BLAM , I'm instant smoke.

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Postby ZOLE » Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:16 pm

Strich9 ...Well thought out post...To the point and completely legible....I commend you on your command of the english language and also for the ability to get your point across without being harsh or rude.

Although the material within your post doesnt matter to me ....I am simply Giving your some proper respect for an excellent amd intellegent post.



Z
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Postby SneakyBastard » Sat Sep 06, 2008 12:52 pm

if possible find get the armor before running a flag on haleys...Ive learned its much less dissapointed getting hammered w/o the flag.....Me myself with get pissed and will start hammer camping myself until I forget that sticky keys is on and it kills UT :?
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Postby Duesy » Sat Sep 06, 2008 1:21 pm

Heya S9.. long time no chat..

I hope things are going well for you =)
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Postby Judge » Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:01 pm

Renegadex wrote:Long story.

Short answer: Dont play FACE!



Damn Ren, That is what I was gunna tell him. :shock:


BTW, that was a nice post thou. Ill give about 4 more posts after mine b4 the arguement insues. :roll:
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Postby BAR|BeerThePenguin » Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:25 pm

strych9 wrote:
BAR|BeerThePenguin wrote:Was this even a Haleys server?

Peng, are you kidding? I believe it was #1, Face only, no rules. As if. :lol:

Sorry. it sounded like you were describing the non-Haleys Face server.
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Postby Evil_Priest » Sat Sep 06, 2008 3:37 pm

LOL AT FACE. And I hate piston camping noobs. Get some skill.
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Postby Renegadex » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:04 am

strych9 wrote:Ren, I would have expected a more positive comment from you than "obey the admins, or go somewhere else." Rather disappointing. :cry:

I guess it's just a touchy subject, for me.

That was as positive as I could make it -- you admitted to being an ass (piston camping). What more do you want me to say?

I'm actually firmly against "no rules" servers, as they foster confusing issues like the one you described. Either we're consistent in trying to regulate the game, or people don't know what to expect. Oh, well.
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Postby Archie_Klumper » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:30 am

Advice about piston campers...

If you know one is there, wait for a teammate to go through then immediately follow. There's about a second for the piston to recharge, and you'll be unharmed.

Go through and give 'em what fer. (5 rockets ought to do it :wink:) :twisted:
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Postby j@Y666**Qc.ca** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:50 pm

or just get to the right or left of the trans and side dodge in....his piston will hurt u a little but it doesnt kill u. :wink:
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Postby Evil_Priest » Mon Sep 08, 2008 2:57 pm

yeah but are you going to do that when your holding their flag and dodging five six pack rox?
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Postby Archie_Klumper » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:30 pm

Well, some people do that I guess, but when I have the flag I usually try to stay near where it should be so that I can quickly cap when it returns (or get pummeled and bounced by my teammates "covering" me with spam :roll:)

I only purposely go after PC'ers when I'm in defense mode.
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Postby strych9 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:30 pm

Back to the point, Hellraz'r points out that the "rules" are posted on the main page, a place where a good percentage of patrons will never bother to look. All they see is the "No Rulez" banner that keeps popping up in the chat area. Anyway:
Hellraz'r wrote:Thou Shalt Not...
(1) Piston Camp
(2) Spawn Kill
(3) Team Kill
(4) Flag Launch
(5) Dis Admins

All I'm concerned about here are "rules" #1 and #5. If #1 is truly a rule, then why in the world was I told "yes" when I asked the admin if piston camping was allowed? To reiterate my point, not all of the admins are reading from the same page. If #5 is considered to be true when challenging an admin's decision or action, well...that's called dictatorship.

Those of you that know me in the community and know my leadership style can attest to the fact that I have always made my admin decisions based on what is equal for every patron on the server. The one and only point of this post is, rules or not:
    1. Everyone should know what is allowed and what isn't without having to visit a website to get that information.
    2. Every patron needs to be treated equally.
Three things that should not have happened in the aforementioned scenario are:
    1. Being told that piston camping is ok, when in fact it isn't.
    2. Being scolded for performing the action which I had just clarified was ok.
    3. Ignoring the original player that had been violating rule #1 the entire game.

Running servers that are offered to the public at no charge to them is an effort to promote a community that has been shrinking slowly for the nine years this fine game has been available. While it is a privilege to be allowed to play on those servers, it is also a responsibility for the server owners and their admins to maintain a consistent, fun, and fair environment for all. This experience is in no way indicative of your normal way of running your servers, but only serves as one small incident from which we can all learn. That's it in a nutshell.

Zole, thanks. I like to think that I'm a rational, intelligent adult. Being the Devil's advocate is a curse I bear, but allows me to express points to remember. I'm no crackpot. :wink:

Ren, you're second reply was more of what I expected. Thanks.
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Postby Archie_Klumper » Mon Sep 08, 2008 3:54 pm

strych9 wrote:that's called dictatorship.


This is the only line in your post I disagree with.

I always considered a server owned by an individual to be Private Property. They have every right to allow/disallow people from entering the property and even turn away folks based on their behavior. They themselves could also behave any way they want to as well because they're forking over the dough.

If other join in and help fund the server on an regularl basis, then they also should get a say in how it should be run, therefore it's a partnership and all should agree (preferrably unanimously, but we all know that doesn't happen all the time)

It sounded like you were having fun until the PC'er ruined it. You let him get under your skin and decided to try and get back at him and in turn you got under someone's skin (that was an admin). Well, when I get like that I usually leave and go to another server or throw darts at Judge's Picture - also equally fun.

Just my 2¢
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Postby Judge » Mon Sep 08, 2008 5:40 pm

Judge wrote:Ill give about 4 more posts after mine b4 the arguement insues. :roll:



Ok so it was 7! :lol:

strych9 wrote:1. Everyone should know what is allowed and what isn't without having to visit a website to get that information.


I do believe that is called common sense and not being a dumbass. But dumbasses see "No Rules" and think wow, I can be myself there. :roll:

Am not knocking either the HHH admining or S9.......but am pretty sure that I have said all this $#!T before. And yes S9, I see where you are going with that which you have stated. :wink:
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Postby j@Y666**Qc.ca** » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:20 pm

strych9, imo h1 dont have enough active admins to control pistoncamping, just do like me, climb on top by another way, kill the pistoncamper, take the armor and grab :wink:
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Postby Playboy » Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:49 pm

Thou Shalt Not...
(1) Piston Camp
(2) Spawn Kill
(3) Team Kill
(4) Flag Launch
(5) Dis Admins
these are the rules for the RULED SERVER not the no rule server :wink:
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Postby Renegadex » Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:59 pm

Let's get another thing straight: none of the original admins run a server anymore.

That said, the kind folks who do run the current servers stick with the Haley's "formula," more or less: fast CTF-Face, all the time. It provides quick action. We try to minimize downloads, but a few have crept in over the years. However, they're not *that* large, and they don't change much, if ever at all. They're mostly for keeping cheaters out of the servers.

Again, I think "no rules" is silly and causes exactly the issue we're discussing, here. But, some people love it, so I also think it's nice to have the choice between "rules" and "no rules".

The easy solution to this issue is to frequent servers where there are rules, they're plainly posted, and they're equally enforced. Of course, you won't find this anywhere, but having these things helps solve arguments fairly rapidly.

In short, there was an inconsistency in HHH1, which was a minor issue and shouldn't have spawned a huge thread on the subject. Hopefully there will be an un-ban and people can play on, which is kind of the point, right?



Lastly, I'm posting this in Google Chrome, and I like
1) the spell checking
2) the ability to re-size this little box (see the little sizing tab on the bottom right? cool, huh?)

However,
1) The text-handling needs help. Inserting text is slow and often results in graphic garble.
2) There's no way to "add" words to the spell-checker. (Like WTF?)
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Postby strych9 » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:30 pm

Renegadex wrote:Hopefully there will be an un-ban and people can play on, which is kind of the point, right?

For the record, there was no ban. You missed the point completely.
Renegadex wrote:The easy solution to this issue is to frequent servers where there are rules, they're plainly posted, and they're equally enforced. Of course, you won't find this anywhere

I completely disagree, but it is this complacent idea that eroded the UT community in the first place. No matter, we play where we play, take the good with the bad.

Make no mistake, your efforts are appreciated.
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Postby He||raZ'r » Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:11 am

Shut up and play already.
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Postby Acid » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:56 pm

All I have to say is the people who play on the servers with no rules bring this kind of stuff upon themselves. I look at it like listening to like a heavy metal radio station and then being offended by Ozzy because he said something in his lyrics that you didnt like.

I am not trying to be a dick, I actually think the NO RULES stuff is a load of $#!T and I have pleaded numerous times to end this garbage but that falls upon deaf ears each time.

Like Ren said the simple solution is stick to the servers with rules. I know some people have voiced their opinions to me over me putting 24/7 face on H3 but it is only temporary until something happens with server 1. We am just filling the void right now and it will go back to mapvote.

As far as the complaints about the team balancer, you might hate it but right now it is still being trained. As people play there more it will recognize who are the better players and the more traffic it gets the more accurate this mod will be.
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Postby Renegadex » Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:43 pm

Acid made his point rather well, and I concur.

Also, the initial tirade wasn't beacuse of a ban? Man, imagine how long the rant would have been if it was... :shock:

:lol: :wink:
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Postby Judge » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:03 am

Wow..........just wow.....




That Acid, Ren, and myself agree on something!!! There is a God!:shock: :twisted:
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Postby Friendly_Fire » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:38 am

3. . . . . . .2. . . . . . .1. . . . . . . .

:P
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Postby [101] » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:07 pm

He||raZ'r wrote:Welcome to the conundrum called Haley's "No Rules" which has been argued, disputed & debated to death, read thru the Banned forums and y'ull see the "Long Story" that RenX mentioned in his post, but to make a "Long Story" very short- "No Rules" means just that "No Rules" for anybody and anybody includes Admins. Of course, just to make it interesting, there are actually rules which are stated on the Haleys homepage-

Thou Shalt Not...
(1) Piston Camp
(2) Spawn Kill
(3) Team Kill
(4) Flag Launch
(5) Dis Admins

To make it even more interesting the rules can be bent, ie. PCing the portal at the top of the tower as u go thru carrying the flag, spawning killing the opponent to cover ur FC, as long as bending the rules doesn't stray too far, u should be ok.

Whew! thats a lot to be thinking of while ur just trying to have a good game of UT, and coincidently there is a server that was created (in part) because "No Rules" can be such a stretch to get ur brain around- Haleys 3, we have rules, that are clearly stated, so ull know right where u stand.

unreal://8.9.6.66:7777/ <---click Strych9, I'd luv to see u there

Dont get me wrong though, the "No Rules" concept made H1 what it is today (and 125 speed :wink: ) it does work (look at all the copy cat servers out there)


I wouldn’t say “No Rules” made H1 what it was, unless there was no rules, before there were rules, because as fare as I remember H1 always did well. H1 and Face go together like Hershey’s and peanut butter.
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Postby Judge » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:18 pm

Friendly_Fire wrote:3. . . . . . .2. . . . . . .1. . . . . . . .

:P


0? :twisted:
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I laff AT those that THINK they are good, and laff WITH those that ARE!



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Postby Archie_Klumper » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:23 pm

Judge wrote:
Friendly_Fire wrote:3. . . . . . .2. . . . . . .1. . . . . . . .

:P


0? :twisted:


KABLOOEY!!!

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